between saying that nato is important but at the same time saying that nato has to change, nato haserstand but let's engage with what he has actually said to the times newspaperjust a few days ago he said that in his new nato had become obsolete. i'm just wondering how you reacted to that. well, i will continue to tell the story about nato and an alliance which has proven, for almost 70 years, able to change when the world is changing. sure... then i will sit down with him and discuss concrete measures, concrete issues where we can do more, where we can change more. and then i agree with president trump that nato has to modernise. that is exactly what we have started to do. and we are doing that by addressing issues like defence spending and terrorism, the two main issues he has mentioned. we will get to the nitty—gritty of defence spending, fighting terror and strategy, on that front, later. let's first talk values. would you accept that nato only works if the member states of nato share fundamental values about human rights, about freedom, and about security? nato is based on some

and how does nato -- nato crate a challenge? share that nato is not of the community of democracies. yes, we can blog, blog, blog to the end, it is equally important. but we all know that the nato is a group of the united states. the united states helping them militarily exercise is political will with them and they support politically by voting somewhere. of course, it is simplistic but in every picture, we can squeeze into black and white. when somebody says let's go and talk to nato, our response is let's go to washington. talk to moscow directly. why should we talk? that is why nato is problematic. it is -- the relationship with the united states is much more important that relations. we are more comfortable in a bilateral track. >> what is behind the recent cooperation between turkey, russia and iran. you are watching "defense news." iran inof that is >> a recent deal brokered among turkey, russia and iran seem to have a roadmap to end of the crisis in syria. i spoke to experts about the so-called moscow declaration. >> lea

the comments about nato. donald trump saying nato is obsolete. here is within his own administration. last week we listened to confirmation hearings for the national security picks. mattis, tillerson and others saying, no, no, nato is very important. russia is a big threat. forget what adversaries think for a moment, talk about what u.s. allies think and the confusing signals. what is u.s. policy? >> that is the problem is how the allies are already reacting to this, whether it's germany or him attacking angela merkel and then france having to come in and defend her. it's -- these are our allies. the united states has a lot of enemies in the world, and to be making people angry who are supposed to be on your side, you have to wonder what's the end game here, what is he trying to accomplish. if he believes nato is obsolete, there is another way to handle that, i think, probably versus announcing it to the world and not working with your allies and letting them know what you feel. this is very scattershot and feels, i think, alarming to a lot of pe

accounts for three-quarters of nato's military expenditures. in a formal ceremony in the western polish city of zagan, where some of the new american troops will be based, poland's prime minister and defense minister welcomed the military help, saying it would help ensure freedom, independence, and peace. while operation atlantic resolve might reassure leaders in eastern europe, it is angering russia, which has repeatedly denounced the buildup along its borders as a provocation that demands countermeasures. "we consider this a threat to us," a kremlin spokesman said as the troops arrived. the russian military has been conducting military exercises of its own and last october, near the borders of poland and lithuania, russia placed missiles that could be armed with nuclear warheads and reach the german capital of berlin. russia has called this build up a provocation. is this a provocation? >> we are here to deter, and a part of that deterrence is putting this formation together as part of a really exceptionally strong team of teams. i would view

trump: nato is obsolete. it was designed for a different mission. >> in october, russia sent nuclear capable missiles there. >> are there missiles here right now? sharyl: mark's business is barbecue. and outlaws is a mount pleasant landmark. political debate can be as hot as a had been narrow pepper. the prospects for the new administration, that's still a hot topic. >> it was hurtful. >> donald trump in my opinion, he's a bombastic blow hard. he doesn't have a snowball's chance of solving all the problems. but he can make some progress. sharyl: welcome to "full measure" i'm sharyl attkisson. president trump has vowed to crack down on sanctuary cities that shield illegal immigrants, including many criminals. in less than two years sanctuary jurisdictions jeekted more than 21,000 written requests from immigration and customs enforcement, or i.c.e., to detain illegal immigrants for possible deportation. of for man 240,000 who were detained and removed in 2016, 58%, or 138,000, had previously been convicted of a

i think nato is absolutely essential.think we would have to create it and have it but that doesn't mean that the europeans shouldn't be paying more. they should be. we said that every nation should commit at least 2% of its gross domestic product, the defensive spendtures and most of the nations have not done so and in particular, a long period of time, for over a decade. sometimes, under 1% of the gross domestic project and the technology and the modernization and necessary for them to do their fair share in for mopromo defense for europe and constantly looking at the international environment. demodernize itself and be relevant and capable so when mr. trump said it should focus on terrorism, people from nato said, we've been working on terrorism. just hasn't gotten as much publicity but there's more that can be done with terrorism with nato. we can do a better job of training and bringing other ministries in foreign governments into the fold and working all together. because nato has, for europeans, been mostly a functi

s strong alliance with nato. u.s. vice president-elect mike pence has said nato will remain an important check on russian aggression. joining us now is the secretary-general at nato. good morning. thank you very much for joining us. the noises that come from the future administration are disconnected. do nikki haley's comments here comfort you? >> absolutely certain that the new president and the new administration will be strongly committed to a strong nato. because strong nato is important for europe, but it is also important for the united states. two wor stability and peace in europe is also important for the united states. the only time nato has invoked article five was after an attack on the united states. and hundreds of thousands fought in that. >> have you spoken to the president-elect? >> i had a phone call with him after he was elected. that was a good conversation. he reconfirmed the strong commitment of the united states to nato, and this is something which is not only words, but also deeds, because we se

i have spoken to him about nato. nato is very important.s been that will work over security in europe and we work together in nato. we have both made the point before about contributions made by countries. the united kingdom is spending to% countries. the united kingdom is spending to % of its gdp on defence andl spending to % of its gdp on defence and i believe that is important. do you believe what he said about other nato countries not paying their way? there are other countries also paying two % and other countries working towards doing that. what is important is that we recognise the value of nato, which she does, the value of nato, which she does, the value of nato as an organisation which helps defend europe and defend the interests of all those allies in nato. it was interesting the story that broke in the sunday times this morning about a trident missile fired without a nuclear warhead which went wrong. yes, we understand it misfired. this was not revealed at the time, we understand this happened back in june, at the time, we under

and that nato, in effect, would be over, finished.now saying has to take responsibility for leading the west in a much more proactive building up of military resources. well, i currently want to stick with the hope, as mr trump takes office, a richer discussion with his new team, with the organs of state in washington and with his allies, will make it clearer to mr trump that we have all bought into collective security. certainly since the end of the second world war. that it's not in the us‘s interests to break with nato, or to cause article 5 to be... when you look at his tweets, when you look at his mindset, how worried are you? i'm worried, but i would want now to be in the position where i would like to give him the time to have that discussion with his own people. fascinating, you keep talking about, "i hope he will talk to his own people." you know some of his key appointees very, very well. thinking about general mattis, who is now going to be defence secretary. we're talking about the other generals, one of whom is now his na

this thing about nato.o be obsolete and now she, that is the biggest news today, she managed to say, as you told me, mr president, you told me you were backing nato 100%. but we you told me you were backing nato 10096. but we haven't heard him say this. a lot of the analysts were saying that was perhaps the most important thing that was said. the daily telegraph with the headline their hand—in—hand, the happy couple. again, the handholding has it. towards the end of the article there, that note that theresa may said that donald trump had said he was 100% behind nato and that hold nato issue has been very much a hot potato. he gave an interview to michael gove in the times a couple of weeks ago and said that nato was obsolete. picking up on a theme that he ran with very strongly in his campaign that they basically believe the countries in nato don't pay enough for their defence. theresa may have gone there and said in this press conference that you agreed in oui’ press conference that you agreed in our previ

so nato is very relevant. it's as relevant or more relevant today than it's been even post cold war. and it's very important that our leadership and the american people understand the value and the importance of that alliance to our security. >> so you think president-elect trump doesn't care or doesn't understand the importance of this alliance? >> wolf, i can't speak for president-elect trump. i can speak for president obama, who has prioritized the nato alliance and our partnership and our bonds with our european allies as being a primary component of our security and prosperity. i think the american people understand how important nato is, and i would hope and expect that any president of the united states would come to that understanding as well. >> in the weekend interview with "bild," the german publication, "times of london" he was asked who he trusts more, the german chancellor, angela merkel or the russian president vladimir putin. trump said he will start off trusting both. is that a mistake? >> it'

president, you confirmed you're 100% behind nato. liz: 100% behind nato, ralph?ting. we hadn't heard that before. >> no. let's hope that is accurate and enduring. for all the complaints about nato, i spent. of my military career working under the nato mission in germany and fort hood, texas, i will tell you peace is cheaper than war. nato is the most successful peacetime alliance in history. liz: what happens with russia because tomorrow is the big phone call with vladmir putin. are you concerned that donald trump will continue this, sort of, well they call it a bromance. i think that is way too relaxed after word. >> man crush. liz: but that it is very close? >> my most profound concern about the administration is this relationship, still very vague in some way, between vladmir putin and our president. and make no mistake, vladmir putin is our enemy because he has chosen to be our enemy. he has nothing to contribute to our fight against isis. he wants everything and he wants it now. and so i have seen two american presidents in a row get snookered by vladmir put

support for nato. this follows several statements by the president when he was a candidate and earlier that nato may be obsolete right now because so many of the nato allies are unwilling to pay what they should be paying for that defense expenditure and deploying troops when necessary. you heard her say that. >> sitting overseas and knowing what all the overseas leaders were expecting in this press conference, you can imagine that a lot of what they've heard today -- this was a very different donald trump. many people had been waiting for see whether there would be a may affect so to speak. the first foreign leader to meet him, a woman nonetheless, and on these very important issues. of course, she was going with a lot in hand. she want thad trade deal which she promised. on nato it's very significant what was said. he is 100% committed to it. theresa may says they are going to talk about, you know, upping nato's game when it comes to fighting terrorism and cyber warfare as well. remember, 2% of gdp i

trump has characterized nato as obsolete. he says the alliance has problems and not done enough to fight terrorism. his designated secretary of defense has said -- >> nato from my perspective, having served once as a supreme allied commander, is the most successful military alliance in modern world history. maybe ever. >> whose perspective will win out? trump's, or his appointees? melinda: what you say to that who was likely to win out when it comes t to relations with regegard to russisia? we havave somewhat moderate statements by the futuress victory of defense if in fact he is confirmed. also, the future secretary of state can read on the other hand, some very warm demons from trump. itk: it is confusing to read is typical trump. the tranansition has been filled with contradictory hearings. encouraging are the senate hearings that show nominees have different opinions. i think that is a good sign. he is open for discussions. for most americans, it is see the way trump has been so positive about putin. for republicans, it h

nato will continue.ld trump will be a very strong leader on that front. >> the president-elect called the german chancellor angela merkel's refugee policy of letting a million refugees come in from syria and elsewhere, he said that that was catastrophic. and in response secretary of state john kerry told cnn it's inappropriate to wade into other country's politics especially close u.s. allies like germany. do you believe kerry has a point? >> well, i don't think john kerry has been a very effective secretary of state. so we'll put that on the side. but there is no question the illegal immigrants that have come in that have not been vetted from some of these terrorist nations, donald trump is really contrasting his immigration policy to keep america safe with angela her kell's position of really bringing in over a million immigrants without really knowing for sure where they came from. and nowic r i think that is a piece of the brexit pie where then immigrants could go to the uk because they have open bor

you're a supporter of nato. number two, any language on russia that isn't critical of russia can be so bracing, like language we've heard from the president throughout the campaign, we'll see. i would like to have a positive relationship with this guy, and then torture, the euphemistic enhanced interrogation that as andrea puts it so well has been a flashing red light to so many. >> yes, those are the three substantive points. as much as i love and respect andrea, i have a slightly different view on the torture issue. i think by stating so clearly, i don't think i've ever heard the president say so clearly that he was going to give the word, and this is the word "the power" to make this decision to the defense secretary, who doesn't believe in it, and i think his clarity there is going to be very reassurance to people in the sense that defense secretary mattis is a known quantity. there's no reason to think he's going anywhere. there's no reason to think that this issue need come up over and over again, and it m

nato. concern about whether donald trump is committed to nato. theresa may says she will discuss with the importance and value of nato and thatis importance and value of nato and that is some discussion about how much money countries in europe should be putting into nato. she's talking about the 2% gdp figure. she will raise that issue with them and other areas about foreign policy and about terrorism and syria and issues that donald trump wants to talk about. i have spoken to him about natal. nato is an important and is very important and has been the bulwark of our security hearing europe and we work together in natal. we have both made the point about contributions made by other countries. the editing is spending 296 gdp countries. the editing is spending 2% gdp on defence. i believe that is important. do you agree with what he says about other nato countries not paying their way? there are other nato countries that are also paying 296 nato countries that are also paying 2% of gdp and ot

i asked the nato supreme allied commander for transformation how industry can support nato's expensive goals. >> yes. this is a question of what effect we need to achieve. to define capabilities. today we focus on the appropriate effect. is how we can fix the problems we face today. partner with the industry to do that, because if we describe the effect to the -- the industry can ,ell us, in 5, 10, 15 years this is technology you can foresee. inform them, they need to inform us. associate nations such as nato and the european union, why don't we partner together to develop these solutions. this is why it is so important that we engage the industry effects. we cannot engage the industry on the short-term rate on the short term there is a use competition. when we are talking about 10, 15 years, we can have this discussion. and we can do that with the traditional industry. we can do that with the nontraditional defense industry. we have the presence of ibm, many others. more and more we will rely on -- capabilities and platforms -- this is the case of the u.s. the -- it if it is true for

i have spoken to him about nato. nato is very important.has been that will work over security in europe and we work together in nato. we have both made the point before about contributions the united kingdom is spending 2% of its gdp on defence and i believe that is important. do you agree with what he said about other nato countries not paying their way? there are other countries also paying 2% and other countries working towards doing that. what is important is that we recognise the value of nato, which she does, the value of nato as an organisation which helps defend europe and defend the interests of all those allies in nato. with me is the former international development secretary, andrew mitchell. i suppose part of the story is that she is the first, and that is quite important, the first foreign leader to meet president trump? yes, and it also underlines the fact that the eyes of state in britain have very close interests, many things that we see in the same light. we have a common view. it is very well, president trump is deciding

the prime minister securing 100% support for nato and also the auditor general‘s support for nato is,right honourable friend not agree with me that some of the less than helpful remarks the president might have made about nato in the recent weeks and months is actually quite a useful wake—up call to nato? we need to modernise some aspects of the administration of nato and we need to see to our nato partners they've got to step up to the mark and pay their 2%, like we do? well, exactly. the new president has called for members of nato to fulfil the commitments that we agreed and we and the united states agreed back at the wales summit in 2014, and a number of other nato account members still have a long way to go to meet the 2% target. we also agree with the new president that we need to continue to modernise nato to make it effective as a response and as a deterrent. now that the united states of america has clearly become a less stable and reliable nato partner, how pragmatic is the 2% spending target? and what consideration has the secretary of state given to allocating more time fo

obviously, troops are headed to germany to support nato. >> you said nato and i think nato is the mostortant thing that we need to keep in mind. the president-elect over the course of the campaign made some very troubling statements about his willingness to live up to our article five guarantees to our nato allies. >> he's very against nato. >> exactly. he said our willingness to defend our allies will be conditional upon their defense spending and even just introducing that element of conditionality undermines what should be a defending our nato allies. so that's a tremendous concern. it's notable that rex tillerson in his confirmation hearing indicated that much greater support for nato alliance but bolstering nato will be absolutely critical for the next administration if we are to seek to preserve our interests in europe. soledad: thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> coming up next, do you know which inauguration featured a drunk vice whichpresident? which president had to be sworn in twice? what time will donald trump officially become president trump? >> yes,

we did ask him about nato. we did ask him about the opposition and confirmation hearings, about rex tillerson. he did say he was hoping to be that person to provide those checks and balances just like he would with any president, hallie. with the comment about john lewis, he did try to have it both ways. he said john lewis has earned the respect to say that comment but does not think he should be boycotting the inauguration because it undermines the peaceful turnover of power. >> we will be checking back with you, march -- mariana. >> president-elect's comments about nato have some of our allies a little concerned. >> i said a long time ago nato had problems. it is obsolete because it was designed many, many years ago. number two, the countries aren't paying what they're supposed to pay. >> it might be tough to hear but that was donald trump talking about nato be obsolete years ago. ali, we're seeing a fair amount of reaction. >> reporter: that's right. president-elect trump's comments are concerning. just this

i said a long time ago that nato had problems.e it was obsolete because it was designed many years ago. number two the countries aren't paying what they are supposed to be paying. i took heat. when i nato is obsolete it is obsolete because hi it wasn't taki taking care of terror. and now it is on the front page of 0 of the "wall street journal" that they have a division devoted to terror. we are supposed to protect countries but a lot of these countries aren't paying what they are supposed to be paying which is unfair to the united states, with that being said nato is important to me. now, remember, the question was not, is nato important. the question was -- can you understand why eastern europeans fear putin and russia and there's not a hint. not a hint that donald trump understands that at all or even understands that question. joining us now, general wesley clark, sup prime allied commander from 1997, senior fellow at the uk berkeley center. general clark, finally donald trump did get to say nato is very important to me. after

because if mattis is out there talking to the nato allies asking for nato asissance fighting in afghanistan in isis, this is something germany has participated in. trying to work with other countries on counter-terrorism against isis and there is these bad feelings they are not too sure what the u.s. stands for, what the u.s. priorities are, if there are confusing signals this is how you get miscalculation in national security and international security problems. and i think most analysts and most u.s. military commanders will tell you that's the big worry right now, mixed signals, and the allies may be uncertain about how committed the u.s. really is. >> barbara, thank you. >>> to a cnn exclusive now. secretary of state john kerry ripping president-elect trump over his comments on nato. as barbara was just discussing and in foreign policy in general. he gave his final interview to our christiane amanpour. >> secretary of state john kerry came into our studios for a final exclusive farewell interview. and he spoke expansively about some of the issues that the obama administration accomplish

laura: vladimir putin does not vary much care for nato. -- very much care for nato. in that press conference today with theresa may, she said to president trump, you are 100% committed to nato. were you reassured by today? >> well, let's see what happens. he has said, and i think this was constructive, that the countries of nato need to pay their 2%, their 2% requirement. more of them are meeting that requirement after he said nato was obsolete. not that it should disappear. and he didn't make clear that she thinks nato should not change and be a more effective organization. so, again, i think there is room for discussion but in this case, i was reassured that he will support nato surviving into the future and i think it is very important that he do that. laura: turning to immigration, the president is going to suspend issuing visas to people from predominantly muslim countries, including iran and iraq but excluding saudi arabia and pakistan. what do you make of that move? >> i think we need more information about why the 7 countries and not 9 or 10 countries, becaus

she has to nato was very striking.be able to make the case that it is in the united kingdom ‘s interest to have good relations with the united states, regardless of who is the president, but they are clearly very different characters. what impression do you think the president made in britain in his first press conference with the foreign leader? you got an element that there was a difference between president trump and the candidate. he was a lot more softly spoken. but they were flashes of the man we saw on the campaign trail. but he is just so different from so many different top political figures. just talking about the volunteering about the difference of view between himself and the secretary of defence with regard to torture. the president admitted that the secretary of defence would have the final seal over the policy. that type of approach, acknowledging that isa type of approach, acknowledging that is a border that may have the final say, is to conventional politics, something of a surprise. i suspect, in ter

he didn't really specifically mention nato. it was theresa may who pretty much appears that she quoted out of their conversation and brought the president behind her definition of being 100% behind nato. this is something that everybody in europe wants to hear. this can be seen as a clear signal pushed by theresa may toward russia particularly on the eve of that telephone conversation that donald trump is due to have with quote vladimir putin. she got some reassurances there. there were questions from british journalist saying that you would promise that they would be a special trade relationship and deals. that wasn't specifically mentioned in this press statement. there was no specific commitment from donald trump. by the week we have seen, that can be be used as a disappointment. >> that is so important. sarah: as britain ramped up for trade does. donald trump is speaking about his support for brings it. donald trump: i think brexit will be a wonderful thing for your country. once it i is out, you will have your own identity

think what she got on nato.ld trump has given that commitment and she can say to eu partners and nato partners in europe, who have doubts about the uk heading off to the us, she is able to say she got a commitment that he is 100% behind it. you may do well on the substance, but in the end it is decided, often, on the optics, and what will be the abiding memory of the visit? the handshake, the holding hands. thanks, nick. dr leslie vinjamuri is an expert in the transatlantic partnership. professionally, this must be a fraught time for you. what is the transatlantic partnership? it has been an interesting visit today. it was a meeting that could have gone very badly. but i think it is exactly right to say the optics, the symbolism of the visit have so far seemed to be very important. the transatlantic relationship, what is it? historically, it has been a commitment by the us and the united kingdom to promote and secure the liberal international order. this is what everybody has been worried about, that donald trum

mr president, you confirmed that you are 100% behind nato.are also discussing the importance of nato continuing to ensure it is as equipped to fight terrorism and cyber warfare as it is to fight more conventional forms of war. i have agreed to continue my efforts to encourage my fellow european leaders to deliver on their commitments to spend 2% of their gdp on defence so that the burden is more fairly shared. it is only by investing properly in our defence that we can ensure we are properly equipped to face our shared challenges together. finally, the president and i have mentioned future economic cooperation in trade. trade between our countries is already worth £150 billion a year. the us is the single biggest source of inward investment to the uk and, together, we have around $1 trillion invested in each other's economies. the uk—us defence relationship is the broadest, deepest and most advanced of any two countries sharing military hardware and expertise. the president and i are ambitious to build on this relationship in order to grow ou

the financial contribution to the nato budget that the u.s. wants them to make. shouldn't they be paying more? >> there's been a long standing policy that we like to see nato spend 2% of their gdp. as we continue to work on that we shouldn't abandon or discount the value that nato continues to deliver to the united states. we should remember that one time that nate why alliance has been invoked to support an ally is for the united states after september 11th. nato is important to u.s. security. it is something we should invest in for our own sake. and this serves all of our interest. >> only a few, maybe three or four, if that, of the 28 nato allies make that 2% financial commitment. maybe it is getting better, but there is a long way to go in that specific area. ambassador, let's talk about russia lifting sanctions on russia. the president was asked about that today. he was noncommittal as one of his top advisers, kellyanne conway, says it is under consideration. how much resist uance could the there be if key allies move in that direction, a

. >> he called nato the most -- >> mattis called nato the most successful military alliance probably in modern history. maybe ever. in that context, the divide clearly between some of his key picks and the president-elect on that, here's what donald trump said about russian sanctions about russia to this new interview in the "wall street journal." >> if you get along and if russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody's doing some really great things. what if the incoming president is talking about lifting sanctions while the outgoing president and even a number of republican lawmakers are debating furthermore stringent sanctions? >> it's a sign of weakness that donald trump continues to denigrate nato and threaten to lift the sanctions on russia. the sanctions are this for a purpose. russia invaded ukraine illegally. and that's why the sanctions are there and they cannot be lifted until the russian forces get out. so if donald trump persists in this, he's going to be separated from his new secretary of state and secretary of defense. he's going to be sep

nato and russia. donald trump has said nato is obsolete now. of course at odds with his own defence secretary in there, who has described the nato relationship is essential. but donald trump is sceptical. he particularly doesn't like nato allies who are not pulling their weight and spending on defence. britain does reach the 2% spending threshold, so theresa may may be able to stay to donald trump, i will persuade the other nato allies that they need to pull their weight. but on russia, when theresa may spoke to republicans yesterday, she said it was important to be where vladimir putin. donald trump has made no secret of the fact that he wants to work with the russians. he will be speaking by phone tomorrow to vladimir putin amid speculation that he may be willing to lift those sanctions against russia imposed in the wake of the conflict in ukraine. this is not something theresa may would agree with. she is very wary of the russians. so again, a point of the russians. so again, a point of disagreement. theresa may made this speech which went d

we will get to the nato bit ina minute. i was thinking, the german elections are coming up.early quite alarmed that the kind of intervention which now most people, except wilder conspiracy theorists, believe russia did at least play an interventionist role in the us. if it can happen there, it can happen in germany, presumably. there is a lot of nervousness ahead of the elections there in september. already there have been cyber attacks, for example on the bundestag, the german parliament. and everyone is expecting more russian intervention in domestic german politics. for example, there was a big story when the refugee crisis started in 2015, a fake story about a russian girl being raped by refugees. that came out and was a manipulated story. what we see now in the us is happening in europe as well. we will all have to deal with this? yes, and it is a big challenge. it is an extraordinary week, and we will get on to theresa may's fight with the doctors in britain, which is politically very brave. we also have, which is politically quite brave for an american president to sa

lot of concern in europe about this approach to nato. you were a nato commander. what would be your message to trump about nato? >> well i had a chance to deliver it in person. i went to trump tower in early december at his invitation to discuss world events and the possibility of working in the trump administration, and we talked about nato, and i thought he at that time had a pretty balanced view, saying yes, there's great value here, but we need them to up their game and pay a bit more, and i left that meeting thinking nato would be in a pretty good place. i see general mattis coming in talking about it very positively, same with secretary designate tillerson. i think it's probably going to be okay, but it is a warning shot across the european's boughs they need to up their 2% goal to the terms they mandated. as donald trump the riff on the nato is obsolete but it's "very important to me" i'm hanging on that phrase and hoping. >> thank you so much, admiral, for being with us today. >>> now we have breaking news on obamacare. our brand new nbc news/"wall street

nato has sacrificed, nato soldiers have paid a heavy price in the netherlands, from throughout -- afghanistanlsewhere. the night against terror. it's a mumt misunderstanding of what nato does, number one. it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the importance of angela merckle to criticize here migration policy at a time when she is under fire politically at home -- >> what's the risk to that in real terms. >> well, it's disrupting the alliance. the oldest atlantic alliance that we have. and i can tell you the french and the germans are deeply upset. the britts under theresa may are trying to subsume their concerns because she is trying so hard to play up to donald trump because of brexit thinking she needs a trade deal and economic partnership with the united states having lost the european union, the much larger market than what the uk has. and trump is thinking that an alliance with the uk is more important than the european union. and that angela merkel should be put on the same basis as vladimir putin. it just continues to feed the suspicion that he is cozying up to poouten in an extraord

you said your 100% behind nato, but we are also discussing the importance of nato continuing to fightnd cyber warfare as it is to fight more conventional forms of work. i've agreed to continue my efforts to encourage fellow european leaders to deliver on defence of the bridge and is more friendly shed. it is only by investing properly in defence we can ensure we are properly equipped to face our shared challenges together. theresa may speaking for the president there. the camera we had was not on his face, so i can see whether he was not deny shaking his head. he didn't deny wishy stated there. how crucial is that? think i was pretty important. britain and its partners in the two are quite worried about his statements about the alliance, that it is obsolete, that america might not be as committed to it as it had been and is over how to state in that way" him that he was 100% behind it, you are right, he didn't say the words himself, but he did not refute her. it is an important signal. he said a need to become more nimble in terms of more modern challenges like cyber wa rfa re of more

do they think nato is going to attack russia? do they believe that? >> they do. they do have a paranoid belief that nato is going to attack and encircle russia. and it's not rational. but they believe that their war with nato -- >> troops in poland right now, the germans -- is that an act of aggression as they see it? >> it's absolutely not. it's an act of deterrence. >> as they see it. [ all speak at once ] >> as theyee it, yes. but remember, you know what they've done, this is not discussed very much. they've broken out of the international nuclear forces treaty. to ungeek that, what it means is that in the '80s the russians developed a missile to strike our european allies. reagan got rid of them, so

this is a good thing for the nato countries, and poland and the politics joined nato in 2004 and theyto see assurances they will be defended under article 5. >> earlier in the week, mattis said he supports nato and that is something that goes against the grain of what president-elect trump said. what do you make of that relationship? >> general mattis said he not only supports nato, and he said if nato was not in existence now we would have to create it, and that's a huge statement on the guy getting part of the secretary of defense what counters what trump said during his entire campaign. nato is an important alliance and we have to keep it strong, and it has transformed orr its years to address its threat today unlike what mr. trump said, it's an old institution. it's very modern and they do a lot of good things. >> we appreciate it so much. always good to get your thoughts and perspective. thank you, sir. >> my pleasure, and thank you. >>> "saturday night live" going after the president-elect once again. alec baldwin back to take on donald trump, but will the president-elect respon

so what i would like to see is kind of a nato 2.0, so to speak, in that nato needs some serious reformse is voicing those publicly. >> jenna: so is the anxiety that we hear and is being reported on, in your opinion, is that a good thing that may add to the reform and actually add to the strengthening of nato, rather than its destruction? >> well, i think shaking some things up within nato and within our european partners is a good thing. i do have some concerns, frankly, about doing it so publicly, because i fear that it sends the wrong message to both terrorist groups and to the russians. i could see the russians thinking right now, and putin in particular, thinking through estonia, latvia, lithuania, the other countries that they may have their eyes on, and whether the united states would really stand up and support its nato allies. so i would like to see it a little more private. but i do think it's a good thing that we are shaking the tree, so to speak. speak to someone else was making public statements, that is general mattis, the nominee nor secretary of defense but he actually wa

mattis really affirmed he believes nato is intact and our relationship with nato continue to be strong. who wins on this one? >> i don't think it's a win-lose situation. i think what general mattis, we should call secretary mattis. he spent the last week doing reaching out to nato allies, reassuring them the commitment united states has to nato, to atlantic alliance goes beyond any specific administration. there is a lot of verbal chaos in this electionransion particularly, what general mattis h done he cut through the verbal chaos and reached out to civilian department with our allies throughout nato. united states military has deep commitment with nato. we have 70 year history. secretary mattis described that as the most successful alliance in history. we reaffirmed the commitment. when you cut through all the verbal chaos, cut through the facts of the case. united states and nato alliance is strong as it ever has been and general mattis will strengthen it. melissa: what we'll witness live on our televisions he believes strongly in the military. he wants to see the military strengthe